This is quite interesting.

Funny thing is I was absolutely fine until you said this.

Player Won wrote:

That's incredibly blasphemous, and you need to adjust your thinking. I don't mean to scold you in any way, but if you ask ANY religious leader, you'll see that God has never changed, and he never will. Idc how different our religous views are, as I can tell we are extremely different from THIS. He never changes nonetheless.

Maybe saying God "changed" was worded wrong or interpreted wrong or both. I found this article about it and it describes what I am trying to say a lot better.

"I think an answer might be in the types of people that He was dealing with at the time. During ancient times in the Old Testament, about the only thing that got people's attention was raw power. The most powerful warrior would conquer territories and become King. When a more powerful person came along, that King was killed and the new person became King. Authority was almost synonymous with power.

Given such a prevailing attitude, it makes sense that God didn't actually change. He simply presented a different view of Himself. He presented a spectacular Creation in Genesis, and He regularly "smote" whole armies in an instant to permit victory for His favored Tribes.

Consider a human father who finds the need to reprimand a young child. He might easily attempt to seem extremely harsh and powerful, in order to get necessary lessons across.

By the time that Jesus Walked on Earth, men's attitudes had advanced (a little). Jesus consistently demonstrated and taught Love and Generosity and Gentleness. We then had first-hand experience of the wonderful Lovingkindness of God. That Lovingkindness had always been there, even in the apparently harsh Old Testament God. But, during Old Testament times, such Gentleness would have been perceived as weakness, and God knew that. Therefore, even though He Loved His followers very much, it was not appropriate for Him to show it.

Jesus showed us that it was possible to display Lovingkindness without affecting the sense of incredible power that everyone knew that He had. Even during His trial and Crucifixion, most people seemed to believe that He could have instantly swept all that away, but that He knew that He had to suffer through those experiences in order to fulfill Old Testament prophecy.

Therefore, there is actually no distinction or difference between the attitude or the personality of the Old Testament God and the New Testament Jesus. Our One god just displayed different aspects of His personality as necessary for the people He was interacting with."

Well to share my two cents' worth here...

(goddammit make it a dollar, this is going to be long)


From what I recall in my old Theology class (way back, when I'm not out cutting classes and playing Mortal Kombat in a random arcade),

Jesus was sent for the salvation of mankind, which is congruent to the old testament's numerous prophecies of the arrival of a Messiah that will deliver Israel from the hands of its enemies (physically and spiritually).

Jesus's teachings did not embrace the entire scripture as a whole (like parts of Leviticus), but he respected it as much as anyone else did at that time.

Unlike the known tradition regarding God, as He was known in the old testament, who burns entire cities and lets opposing armies pillage the unfaithful, Jesus shared the wisdom and news of a loving and caring Father who is ready to forgive, and carries the message of spiritual salvation and enlightenment. Most of this can be read in the book of John the beloved, and further expounded by Paul in his travels (counting the various tribes and customs where he had been, in spreading God's word).
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In my opinion, blasphemous as it may seem,

The old Testament is a documentation of the very tumultuous events that transpired in the cradle of civilization. Calamitous events and elders' opinions would have always been credited as God's personal judgment or blessing.

This ancient belief does not separate "Yahweh" from Zeus or Ra, in terms of capriciousness. Capriciousness where: Worship me or be damned in my eternal punishment. Religions then had almost the same platforms, inspired by God (or gods) yet written by men.

Not to doubt that God indeed does wonders, but I am pertaining to that time (when the whole thing is being written) that people thought that the Earth was flat and that the sun comes out of a slit in the sky and other primeval beliefs.

The New Testament on the other hand is a documentation of the life and passion of the Messiah, Yeshua (Jesus) and his teachings and miracles.

Aye, God never changed, but the beliefs of people change in time. Try counting the generations that came from Noah to Jesus, and it would be apparent (with or without divine intervention) that people will germinate new thoughts to complement or (at the worst) complicate even the basest of ideologies.


In short, it all depends on the interpretation of the writer --- and the reader, whether what is written is undeniable truth. That's why scriptures undergo a lot of scrutiny and debate.

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Those who possess the most fervor are the ones who are most likely to document their beliefs. This is a fact that applied even thousands of years back, when an 'anointed' cleric would start writing on his piece of parchment the contents of his vision or insight. Even if there are inconsistencies in the script, or no matter how outrageous it is, give it at least a generation and it will stick as the truth.

From such a principle, we now have the Bible, the Quran, the writings of Gautama Buddha, and other major religious and philosophical works. Holy scriptures, yes, but only for the stalwart believers.

A present day example would be Pastor Fred Phelps Sr., the child-beating, community-cursing, ****-hating bigot from Topeka who brainwashed his children by beating them to submission and herding them psychologically with "You'll go to hell if you don't obey God's commands"--- which are basically his commands, cherry-picked from scriptures in the Bible (notably, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Revelations).

These children are now all grown-up (in their 40s on the average) with kids of their own, and their offspring see this contorted teaching as solid truth. I bet you've seen them in TV or in your state one way or another, picketing funerals for dead soldiers and AIDS victims... and the youngsters see it as a "holy" thing genuinely.


Que horror. That's just around 50 years of life "in devout faith." Imagine what 2000 years can do.

As said before, we can't take everything word-per-word in the scriptures nowadays. You have to put things into context.

sorry...i stopped reading because it was too long lol, but i wanted to point one thing out. In the bible, it actually states that the earth is round. So it's sad that people actually EVER believed it was flat at one point. If those people had looked at the bible, they would've known that the earth wasn't flat.

Crazy aint it? This book its older than friggen nature (not literally, but it is the oldest book) and yet, it was already discovered that the earth is round. It only took everyone else to figure it out thousand something yrs later.

Player Won wrote:

In the bible, it actually states that the earth is round.

Stop listening to Venomfangx. The bible says the Earth is flat...

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"


According to 鋼爪...

鋼爪 wrote:

God's word is God's word. Interpretaion has no say in his will. The bible is written correctly in all languages. God scattered the people of Babel across the world in an instant.

So either you are wrong about the bible being fully reprsentative of God's word, or I just disproved everything said in this 2000 year old myth. Either way you're wrong.

My favorite quote regarding religion by Bill Maher...

Quote :

The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not..

Moving on...

G.O.R.T wrote:

Player Won wrote:

In the bible, it actually states that the earth is round.

Stop listening to Venomfangx. The bible says the Earth is flat...

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"

If you're going to come on so strong, do it properly and get facts straight! 4 CORNERS IS A METAPHOR! thus meaning everywhere!

Quote :

“[God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing.” -Job 26:7

This states clearly that the earth is suspended upon nothing...thus it already knew that we floated in space.

Quote :

there is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers.”- Isaiah 40:22

this states that the earth is but a circle. Thus meaning it is round. Get your facts straight before you go accusing me of listening to some false prophet. Your point in Matthew 4:8 doesn't make any sense either. And regarding Psalms...do you believe the earth can be moved???? The ends of the earth means all over. Stop misinterpreting the scriptures in an attempt to confuse people. Your foolishness is not needed here. If you would not like to contribute to the conversation in a positive matter, than shut the hell up.

Player Won wrote:

G.O.R.T wrote:

Player Won wrote:

In the bible, it actually states that the earth is round.

Stop listening to Venomfangx. The bible says the Earth is flat...

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"

If you're going to come on so strong, do it properly and get facts straight! 4 CORNERS IS A METAPHOR! thus meaning everywhere!

Quote :

“[God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing.” -Job 26:7

This states clearly that the earth is suspended upon nothing...thus it already knew that we floated in space.

Quote :

there is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers.”- Isaiah 40:22

this states that the earth is but a circle. Thus meaning it is round. Get your facts straight before you go accusing me of listening to some false prophet. Your point in Matthew 4:8 doesn't make any sense either. And regarding Psalms...do you believe the earth can be moved???? The ends of the earth means all over. Stop misinterpreting the scriptures in an attempt to confuse people. Your foolishness is not needed here. If you would not like to contribute to the conversation in a positive matter, than shut the hell up.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

Four corners is a metaphor? OK. Sure, that's a good excuse. But what stops the entire book of Genesis from being a metaphor? What stops the entire freakin' bible from being a metaphor? Where do we draw the line to separate what is considered a metaphor and what isn't? And who are we to draw that line?

BTW a circle is 2D, as opposed to a sphere. And yes I do believe the Earth moves. In fact it revolves around something called the sun too.

Finally, your little rant at the end is VERY interesting. What is considered positive? Are you referring to my disbelief? Or the attack at the end of my last post? I also urge anyone to read the quote in my past the page before this one, thanks!

i definately would retaliate, but i have realized, and wonder why nobody else has, that we are discussing religion. Which is against the rules. I now feel bad that i went so far in this topic. I apologize. I apologize to you GORT for conflicting with your views....topic officially locked.

I was surprised that it lasted this long without a flame war.

I have been so busy with other stuff that I didnt notice.

its okay....its over now. Let's not let this happen again.